Vanagon head gasket leaks |
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Will Volkswagen (of America) fix this under warranty?
(includes information on the FTC arbitration agreement with VWoA)
Tim Smith writes:
Coolant leaks out of the engine, by squeezing under the fat rubber head gasket on the head side. The gasket is flat, no groove or lips, so the path is easy for the coolant to get through. Coolant creeps under the gasket edge from day 1 in a new engine, due to water pressure and the use of a soft gasket material. The coolant becomes trapped under the gasket, and creates local corrosion pockets. This is known as 'crevice corrosion' and is due to bad engineering at VAG. Once the aluminium head starts to corrode in the pockets the 'rust' puffs up a bit alllowing more coolant seepage deeper under the gasket. The process continues until it reaches the outside, whence it starts dripping. The hardening of the rubber with age, and the repeated expansion/contraction of the water jackets aggravate this problem as the van ages. The only fix if leaking is new gaskets and perhaps new heads. Small leaks/drips may respond to BarsLeak. This is one type of head leak, and is definately fatal. This problem may suddenly appear in late fall as colder overnight temps. are encountered, causing the water jackets to contract enough to leak out the weakened gaskets seal. Look for drops of coolant under the van.
The second type of head gasket leak is coolant over the top of the internal cylinder barrels, past an O-ring and large thin metal gasket. This allows coolant into barrels, giving some white smoke/missing on startup, but more importantly loosing coolant and letting combustion gasses into the coolant circuit. This is usually noticed when the overflow tank suddenly fills up with a hot engine, and draws back in while cooling. This leak is less common than the first, and gives longer warning time. It can sometimes be fixed by retorquing down the heads.
You can get more information by reading the following article:
Usually you notice little puddles of coolant under the van. By this time though, it's likely been leaking for a while since the coolant evaporates before enough accumulates to drip to the ground.
Many people think that frequent coolant changes help to delay the problem. It's also essential that you use phosphate-free coolant. I'd also recommend that you keep the receipts for any coolant you buy as well as coolant changes you have done. This will help prove that you've kept the vehicle well-maintained if the problem does occur.
Adam Galaski of Kirkwood VW has an interesting theory on what causes the problem:
I am a 20-year technician at a small independent VW-only repair shop and came across something that may be of interest to Vanagon owners. Today we had an '87 Vanagon come in for a head gasket reseal, and after taking it apart for inspection, I found the sealing surfaces to have absolutly no pitting whatsoever. (This engine had been replaced, according to the customer,about 75-80,000 miles ago, and the coolant looks like it hadn't been changed in a while.)
What I did notice about this engine is that the assembler did not use any gasket sealer between the head and the gasket. This got me thinking, so I grabbed an old head from under the work bench which still had the gasket stuck to it. I gently peeled off the gasket and noticed that all the pitting on the head directly corresponded to the bead of sealant on the gasket. I showed this to some colleagues of mine from the auto center here and they all agreed that this may have something to do with the pitting problem. This may be the reason that head gasket kits now come with a different kind of sealant (kind of a green jello looking stuff).
Pass this on and see if anyone else may have some feedback on this.
Bob Donalds of Boston Engine has written an excellent technical article on replacing your heads.
For a while, there was a warranty, and VW could be made to cover part or all of the cost for these problems. The latest reports indicate that this 'unofficial warranty' has expired, and VW is no longer repairing heads under warranty. Derek Drew found the following on the FTC web site:
Facts for Consumers from the Federal Trade Commission
VW Mediation/ Arbitration Program -- July 1994
Under the terms of a 1988 Federal Trade Commission order, Volkswagen of America (VWoA) has established a mediation/arbitration program for all owners and lessees of VWoA or Audi cars and light trucks with engine problems. Through this informal program, operated by the Better Business Bureau (BBB), you may seek one of the following settlements: a refund for the money you spent on repairs; repairs to be made by VWoA at no charge to you; or a VWoA buy-back of your car.
To participate, you must contact the nearest BBB or VWoA and request an arbitration package that includes, among other things, a settlement request form, which you must complete and return. The BBB toll-free number is 1-800-955-5100. You can contact VWoA by writing:
Volkswagen of America, Inc.
Customer Services Department
888 West Big Beaver
P.O. Box 3951
Troy, MI 48007-3951
or by calling:
#1-800-822-8987 (VWoA owners)
#1-800-822-2834 (Audi owners)
This arbitration program covers two categories of problems -- specified claims and internal engine component claims.
Specified claims can be filed by owners or lessees who experienced oil consumption-related problems in water-cooled gasoline engine Volkswagen and Audi vehicles from model years 1974 through 1979. If you have had such oil consumption problems, you need not still own or lease the car to be eligible to participate in the program.
Internal engine component claims involve all other engine problems. All owners or lessees who experienced internal engine component problems with any Volkswagen or Audi vehicle, regardless of the model year and engine type, can file claims. However, you still must own or lease your car to be eligible.
Mediation
The arbitration program, which is offered to you at no charge, has two phases: mediation and arbitration. First, the BBB will try to mediate a settlement between you and VWoA without having an arbitration hearing. For example, BBB staff may ask you to talk to the dealer one more time. Or they may suggest that you contact your VWoA regional office about your problem. Sometimes, the BBB talks to each party and tries to arrange a settlement. This mediation process may result in VWoA making an offer that satisfies you.
If you accept the VWoA offer, you give up your right to arbitrate this particular problem (unless the problem happens again, of course). If you are not satisfied with the VWoA offer, you have the right to an arbitration hearing. Make sure you notify the BBB if you want to have a hearing. Keep a record of the date you contacted the office.
Arbitration
Arbitration is the next step when mediation fails. It differs from mediation in that the parties do not settle the problem between themselves. They present their claims to an impartial third party called the arbitrator, who is the decision maker.
Arbitration is informal; you do not need a lawyer and there are no complicated legal rules. The arbitrator listens to both sides, asks questions, and ultimately makes a decision that he or she believes is fair. The arbitrator may decide for or against your claim. You do not have to accept the arbitrator's decision (see page 7). However, VWoA must accept the arbitrator's decision as final if it's accepted by you. If you decide to arbitrate, your local BBB will give you further explanations about the program's rules.
The Award Request
On your arbitration form, you will be asked to state exactly what you want to receive from VWoA through the arbitration process. If you already have had your car repaired, you may wish to ask for the amount of your bill. If your car has not been repaired, you may wish to ask the arbitrator to order VWoA to make the repairs at no charge to you. Or, if your case justifies it, you might ask for a combination of these.
You are eligible to file a claim and have an arbitration hearing regardless of your vehicle's age or mileage. However, age and mileage are factors that can be taken into consideration by the arbitrator in arriving at a decision.
In an extraordinary case -- for example, if the dealer has been unable to fix serious problems with the car after several tries -- you may wish to ask the arbitrator to order VWoA to buy back the car. In this case, VWoA may ask the arbitrator to deduct an amount from the cost of the car for mileage or use. The arbitrator does not have to make any deduction from the award, but may do so based on individual circumstances. The arbitrator cannot give you more than you have asked for on the award request.
The Arbitrator
Arbitrators are community volunteers whom the BBB has recruited and trained. VWoA does not take part in selecting an arbitrator. An arbitrator is never paid, except for occasional travel expenses.
If you live far from the BBB office, the staff will try to arrange a hearing location closer to your home. Once the arbitrator is appointed, the BBB will set a date for the hearing.
The Arbitration Hearing
The arbitration hearing is an informal proceeding where you have an opportunity to tell your story. You can present any documents and witnesses you want. Essentially, you have to convince the arbitrator that what you are asking is fair.
VWoA will have the same opportunity. If necessary, the arbitrator may decide to ask the BBB to supply and pay for an expert, or you can bring, at your expense, your own expert -- for example, the mechanic who worked on your car. You do not need a lawyer.
Preparing for an Arbitration Hearing
A key factor in the outcome of arbitration is preparation. If you are well-organized, your case will be easier for the arbitrator to understand.
Documents, such as receipts for car maintenance and repair, are usually the best type of information to present at the hearing. But letters from anyone who is familiar with the details, such as the mechanic who repaired the car, are good substitutes. At the hearing, of course, you or others can tell the arbitrator about any relevant details, even if you do not have documents.
Repair Information. You should list all of the details about the car and each problem for which you are seeking a refund or repair:
As suggested above, a receipt often can show much of the necessary information. If you no longer have a receipt, you can ask your mechanic for a copy of the repair record or ask the repair mechanic to come to your hearing or write a letter. In reporting information, the mechanic should include:
If the repair work has not yet been done, an estimate or work order providing such information would be important.
If you no longer own the vehicle but are arbitrating an oil consumption-related problem covered by the specified claims program, you should have proof of past ownership for your arbitration hearing, such as a copy of the title, registration, an insurance policy, a purchase contract, or financing documents. The repair receipt itself may show ownership, as well as the necessary repair information.
Maintenance and Driving Habits
VWoA may argue at the hearing that your problem was caused by poor maintenance or improper driving habits. If you can show that you followed the recommended maintenance schedule and that you avoided driving practices the owner's manual cautions against, you have a better chance of winning. For example, if the problem involves an internal engine part such as a camshaft, it would be helpful to show that you changed the engine oil at the recommended intervals for the type of driving you do and that you used the type of oil recommended in the owner's manual.
To demonstrate maintenance, written records -- such as receipts, door stickers, or personal notes -- usually are=7F=7F the best. On the other hand, to show proper driving practices, your statements to the arbitrator may be the only evidence possible.
Other Information
Sometimes, showing the arbitrator that others have had similar car failures can help indicate that the problem was with the car rather than with your maintenance or driving habits. For example, your mechanic may know of similar failures; you may have seen (or be able to find) articles about similar problems in your local newspaper or in car magazines (check columns written by expert mechanics); and your state or city consumer protection offices may be aware of others with similar car problems or may have additional information.
Also, VWoA sends service bulletins about certain problems to its dealers. Although many service bulletins simply update the dealers about changes in part numbers, other bulletins may indicate that your car repair was a common problem. Therefore, if you can obtain a copy of an appropriate service bulletin and find a mechanic who will verify that the bulletin applies to your car problem, you might want to show it to the arbitrator.
For information about how to order some or all of the bulletins that may apply to your car, call 1-800-544-8021. You also may be able to look at copies of the bulletins at local VWoA dealers.
If your complaint involves an oil consumption-related problem in a 1974 through 1979 water-cooled gasoline engine VW or Audi vehicle, when you receive your specified claims arbitration forms, you also will get "background statements" prepared by the FTC and VWoA. You can present these statements to the arbitrator. They may help the arbitrator reach a decision.
The Arbitrator's Decision
Usually a few days after the hearing, the arbitrator will write a decision, called an "award." It is binding on VWoA, but not on you. You can accept or reject it. If you accept the award, VWoA must do what the arbitrator decides. For example, you might ask for $700 but only be awarded $500 by the arbitrator. You can accept the $500 award, which ends=7F your claim, or you can reject the $500 award and pursue your case through other avenues, such as a small claims court.
If you have problems or questions about the arbitration program, contact your local BBB or the FTC at any of their offices listed on the next page.
For a list of all the FTC's free consumer and business publications, contact: Public Reference, Federal Trade Commission, Washington, DC 20580; 202-326-2222. TTY (202) 326-2502. Ask for a copy of Best Sellers.
Jim Davis writes:
I don't believe they have fixed this under "warranty" for vans past their warranty period. They have however offered to "participate" in the repair costs as a measure of "good will". They paid 50% of the repair cost on my '88 with 70,000 miles and offered nothing on my 87 with 100,000. I think the ammount of participation depends on the pitch given to the rep by the dealer, the # miles on the van, and the nature of your regional VW rep.
I think that if you've had your van regularly serviced at a dealer, the dealer might pitch the regional rep on how good a customer you are & so forth.
Kirk van Druten writes:
Just wanted to report back on my recent experience with Volkswagen of America. About a month ago I noticed a small coolant leak at/near the right head of my '88 Westie. Jumping to conclusions I assumed the head gasket/head had finally gone.
Based on the reports of people on the list having some of their head gasket/head repair costs reimbursed by VWoA, I called and asked what they would do for me. I was assigned a case number and only had to play phone tag with the Vanagon rep for a week. Everyone I spoke to at VW was friendly, professional and very helpful. When I finally got in touch with the rep, (she called me back numerous times) she made it clear that the suit with the Federal Trade Commission had been resolved. Whatever they would decide to do for my case was because of their own decision making process and not out of legal obligation resulting from pressure from the FTC. I was told it would be best to work through a local dealer but they didn't object to my own mechanic doing the work. The difference being that if a real VW dealer did the work I wouldn't have to cover the cost out of pocket with *possible* reimbursement later by VWoA. I called 3 different dealers and talked to the service managers (the VW rep gave me their names and numbers) until I found someone I liked. I then called the VWoA rep back and told her where I was taking my van. The rep then called the service manager at the dealer and what was discussed, I don't know.
Sonnen VW in San Rafael, CA had my van for the morning and found the leak was coming from the O-ring seal where the cylinder meets the block, not the head/head gasket. They said VWoA had already authorized 100% parts and labor to replace the O-ring and head gasket. If a head were needed they said VWoA would cover that too. Initial visual inspection shows that the Sonnen mechanic(s) did good work. The service folks treated me extremely well-better than any other auto service organization I've ever dealt with.
It turned out the head didn't need to be replaced and I had my van back the next afternoon. Can't complain about that kind of service on an out of warranty, 2nd owner Vanagon. It probably didn't hurt that the speedo only reads 66k- VW's computer based national service records show the previous owner had the first speedo replaced at 23k (under warranty!). I didn't volunteer that bit of info - figure they know how to use their computers!
Feel free to contact me directly via email (I'm off list at the moment) if you want more details.
Carl Zipperle writes:
I managed to get get VW to pay 100% of the cost to put new heads on my 1987 Vanagon Syncro. That was in 1994 when the car had 70K miles. I followed the VW Mediation/ Arbitration Program procedure which took six months from beginning to end -- including much patient prodding of the Better Business Bureau arbitrator to move things along. My reading of the consent decree is that there is no sunset on the program. VW will say things like "you expect us to repair a seven year old car?" Just say yes, demand 100% payment and stick with the process. It saved me $3500.
Carl adds:
I was the original owner and at the point it happened the car was only seven years old with 80K miles. I doubt that subsequent owners with 100,000 plus miles on cars over 10 years old -- which is the catagory most owners fall into now -- have much of a chance of getting anything.
